Oral History Interview with Ben Williams

Title: Oral History Interview with Ben Williams
Interviewee: Ben Williams
Interviewer: William Portillo
Description: He now teaches the subjects of US Government, AP Government, and DC History. Benjamin Williams was born on August 11, 1988, in Cleveland, Ohio. He is currently a teacher at Capital City Public Charter School in Washington, DC, and an elected member of the DC State Board of Education representing Ward One. Before moving to Washington, DC, he resided in Columbus, Ohio, Detroit, and Ann Arbor, Michigan. Ben holds a Bachelor's degree in Political Science from Ohio State University. While at Ohio State, he started to get involved in social justice work. Ben also holds a Master's in Educational Studies from The University of Michigan, focusing on teaching secondary social studies. He later moved to DC to start his teaching career. His recent work has been with multiple nonprofit organizations in the DC area, including EmpowerEd, Teaching for Change, and the Zinn Education Project. He has led voter outreach campaigns in Ohio and campaigns to help people getting out of prison restore their voting rights.
Transcript: William Portillo (00:06):
Hello, this is William Portillo from Sewanee, the University of the South. It is currently Wednesday, March 13th, at 2:18 PM, and I'm here with,
Ben Williams (00:20):
My name is Ben Williams. I am a teacher in Washington, DC at Capital City Public Charter School. I'm also an elected official in Washington, DC as I represent Ward One, which is one of the eight wards in DC on DC State Board of Education.
William Portillo (00:38):
Perfect. Thank you. And just thanks again for joining me. I would like to start by just asking where you're from, and I know you mentioned you're currently in DC, but I would like to know, I guess, where you grew up.
Ben Williams (00:55):
So I was born in Cleveland, Ohio, and I grew up in just outside Columbus, Ohio. And then I lived in Detroit, Michigan and Ann Arbor, Michigan prior to moving to Washington, DC.
William Portillo (01:10):
Okay. And what would you say are the major differences from Ohio to now currently in DC?
Ben Williams (01:21):
I mean, there are a lot. It's hard to generalize Ohio to DC because Ohio is a state and DC is a city that will hopefully be the 51st state someday. But in terms of Columbus, Columbus, DC is still more globally diverse than Columbus. Columbus does have racial diversity, but it doesn't have as big of a Latino population as DC does. And I'd say politically, Ohio is much more moderate, where DC tends to be more ideologically liberal.
William Portillo (01:59):
Yeah. And throughout your journey, I guess you can say, how'd you end up in DC? Was that more of a career thing and just how did that come about?
Ben Williams (02:14):
It was, I got my master's in education from the University of Michigan with a focus on teaching secondary social studies, and afterwards was thinking of where I wanted to start up my teaching career. I've always been interested in politics and had been doing a lot of local work with political organizing and voter outreach. And my aunt was living here in DC at the time. She had had a long career in the State Department, and I'm the oldest of six. So I have a lot of family in Ohio still. And as the oldest, I wanted to live in a new city and experience a new city while also starting my career and teaching.
William Portillo (03:06):
And I'm sure throughout your journey you've had, or probably not people you looked up to in terms of what path you'd like to take. Is there a specific person or group that I guess you looked up to and what traits made you look up to them?
Ben Williams (03:27):
Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, one person that comes to mind is Brian Stevenson, who is a human and civil rights lawyer. In my early twenties at Ohio State, I started to really get involved in a lot of social justice work. And so people who have been committed to improving their community and making our society more fair and equal really motivate me. And so his work with abolishing the death penalty for minors and with strengthening legal defense systems across the United States has really motivated me because he's been able to combat a lot of racial injustice in the criminal justice system.
William Portillo (04:20):
Also, over time, I'm sure this probably has changed. Where would you say you have found community, maybe as a child, and how has that changed to now as an adult? Is there certain groups you hang around
Ben Williams (04:38):
Found what? What was the first part of the question?
William Portillo (04:41):
Community, this can be just outside career wise, just maybe through sports.
Ben Williams (04:49):
Sure. I mean, I'd say the first community for me growing up was my family, and I have a big family, so my mom also has one of six, so I have 30 cousins on that side of the family, and we had a lot of family traditions in the summer and winter, so that was definitely a big sense of community. And then you did mention sports and yeah, I did participate in the basketball and tennis programs at my school growing up. So those helped establish some friendships of people that I still maintain connections with today. And then when I moved to DC, because it's a bigger city, and I didn't necessarily have those same networks here, a lot of it was done through my school community, but then also through different nonprofit organizations in the DC area. So for instance, and there are three that really stand out.
(05:46):
One is Empower Ed, which is a group of teachers that have been working to improve the education profession in DC for the last six, seven years. I've been a fellow for them for five years. And then once I got elected to office last year, I've still maintained connection, but not in the same way. Another group was Teaching for Change, which focuses on social justice teaching in classrooms, and they're a national organization. And that actually connects back to someone who motivates me, like your point earlier, who would be Howard Zinn. And Howard Zinn was a historian who wrote the People's History of the United States, and my grandfather gave me a book of his when I was really young, and Teaching for Change runs the Zen Education Project, which is named after Howard Zinn. And his philosophy of telling stories that focuses on individuals as opposed to conquerors and colonizers is really resonated with me. And so been able to meet a lot of just wonderful people through those organizations and other activist networks have helped me establish a sense of community in DC.
William Portillo (07:08):
Perfect. Yeah. So you mentioned family being a big part of your journey. How different or similar would you say the work they do is to yours? Is there someone in your family who does maybe similar work as you do? Or is it all just different?
Ben Williams (07:26):
Yeah, I think there are similars and differences. My mom is a professor of sociology at a Columbus State Community College, so she's been involved in education for a while. My sister's a social worker, so she is really in another helping profession. One of my brothers is a surgeon, so I think doctors have a critical role in our society too. And then some of the differences are that I have two brothers who are lawyers, and my dad is also a lawyer, but my brothers are doing a law that also has a connection to a broader purpose where one of my brothers is a criminal defense lawyer, so he represents people who can't necessarily afford representation. And then my other brother does family law where he is looking out for children in the foster care system. So I guess it didn't anticipate that things would end up that way, but we've all kind of pursued work that we find to be interesting and fulfilling.
William Portillo (08:38):
Yeah. Thank you for all of that. As you may know, the purpose of the Black Lives Matter Oral History Project is to aim to collect personal narratives in hopes to educate others, including students, educators, and just the public in general. So these following questions, will touch more on the Black Lives Matter Movement itself and just your opinions. So just in general, how do you receive the news? Just like social media or what would you say is your main source?
Ben Williams (09:24):
I subscribe to the New York Times and the Washington Post, and I also listen to National Public Radio every morning. NPR is a big news source for me. I follow a couple other news sources like Reuters. I'd say those are the top ones. And then also Twitter and to a lesser extent, like Facebook and Instagram.
William Portillo (09:51):
And are there any that you tend to just stay away from due to maybe reputation or just credibility?
Ben Williams (09:59):
Yeah, I think there's a lot of news sources that just don't have the quality journalism. I mean, there's a lot on both sides of the ideological spectrum, but the Blaze, the Daily Caller, Fox News, I would never see that as credible news. I would see that more as propaganda. And on the liberal side, I think there are other organizations too, like Daily Coasts and a variety of other outlets and individuals that are more interested in ratings than in educating the public.
William Portillo (10:40):
And as we touch on sources, what are your opinions on just social media. Do you think, especially when thinking of generations, Do you think it has more of a positive impact or negative?
Ben Williams (10:57):
Yeah, I think both. I think time has yet to tell. I think it's on the downside. The Russian government through Cambridge Analytica hacked into about 70 million Facebook profile photos to help elect Donald Trump. And I think that was disastrous for manipulating news and public opinion prior to the 2016 election. I think that Twitter started off as a very democratic platform, but has since become way more negative. And it is often a place for people to attack each other rather than to engage in authentic discussion. So I think the guardrails of what is acceptable are still being determined, but that in terms of just sharing information, it could be good. But in terms of having respectful conversations, there's a lot of work that needs to be done.
William Portillo (12:08):
And would you say that a lot of, I guess you can say lack of respect comes from maybe the amount of freedom that these apps give. Is there anything you would say that can be done to prevent those types of issues?
Ben Williams (12:29):
Yeah, and I think European nations have figured out more and demanded more of social media companies, and I think government needs to play a role in limiting hate speech, limiting harassment, figuring out where the bounds of freedom of speech come in, because it's not an unlimited. So yes, people have freedom of speech and there should be limitations to it that are constructive. So I think we have a really hard time as a country creating those limitations. But I think the government needs to play a more active role in telling Facebook and Twitter. And I mean, even today, the US House of Representatives told TikTok that they either need, the owner needs to either sell the company or step down. So they're starting to do that, but it's hard because it gets politicized.
William Portillo (13:37):
So moving into the movement itself and news, what was your first encounter with the Black Lives Matter movement? Maybe just how you found out about it and Yeah.
Ben Williams (13:52):
I think I knew about the Black Lives Movement prior to or after rather, the murder of Trayvon Martin. And I want to say maybe that was 2014 or it feels like at least 10 years ago at this point, and how that hashtag started to spread, but it hadn't gone mainstream yet. I think that what happened when George Floyd was murdered was it took years to build up to the organizing that was necessary to understand why people were advocating that Black Lives Matter. And so I was really motivated as a teacher in Detroit. I led voter outreach campaigns in Ohio. I had led a campaign to help people who are getting out of prison restore their voting rights. So I was familiar with a lot of the racial justice elements that are the core components of the movement, but I think when talking to some family members or talking with just a general person, it didn't seem like they were aware of what the movement was trying to achieve in its earlier years.
William Portillo (15:09):
So would you say that, I guess most people found out about the movement, I guess during the time of the George Floyd incident?
Ben Williams (15:21):
I think so. In terms of, I mean, it had already been global, but in terms of it to go mainstream, if you will, I think that shook the conscience of the country and the world. I mean, you even think about it, right? Kaepernick had lost his job trying to stand for the same principles of the movement a year's previously. And then afterwards when NBA players were wearing T-shirts that were talking about the murder of Breonna Taylor or George Floyd or Sandra Bland or someone else, they were more celebrated by it because it had already gained broader acceptance.
William Portillo (16:07):
Yeah. Would you say there was a big difference between, I guess, your reaction towards the movement and more of your community's reaction? As in, how involved was your community compared to the work you were doing?
Ben Williams (16:31):
I mean, I've put myself in communities that have led this work and have been supportive of this work. And then I think my family generally has supported this work, but not so actively. I mean, the town I grew up in Ohio, not in Cleveland, but outside Columbus is a mix of Republicans and Democrats. So they haven't been on board with the aims of the movement or with just being able to advance racial justice in general. I mean, one example would be that many places around the country are taking down statues of Confederate generals and are renaming streets, even just outside DC we have Lee Highway, which is still the case, who was the leader of the Confederate army. And the neighborhood I grew up in has streets that are named after plantations, like plantations of Thomas Jefferson and plantations of other slaveholders, and they've chosen not to change those names. So I think that I don't necessarily have regular, if any, communication with a lot of the folks that live there. I haven't lived there since I graduated high school, but it certainly, I understand communities that have either not supported the movement work or actively tried to hurt the advancing the movement.
William Portillo (18:11):
In terms of the effect the movement has had on different communities and generations, do you think, or what do you think, which generation do you think is most impacted by the movement or was more impacted by the movement as it is still ongoing?
Ben Williams (18:31):
I mean, I want to say that the younger generation, I think it's been a real opening of consciousness and awareness to younger folks. And oftentimes youth and young people are the ones leading a lot of the organizing. And one thing I teach in my class that I think is important to really understand the Black Lives Matter movement is that it is a continuation of a longer freedom struggle that has been built off of the Civil Rights Movement and the abolition movement, and just the continued work that all people who have been impacted by white supremacy are fighting for a truly fair and free world. So I think that what we had was a moment after George Floyd's murder where more people started to do some of the work and learning and reading to understand the aspects of their white privilege or just understand how gross and fairness in different institutions that they weren't familiar with beforehand. But the work of the movement has been a continuous struggle that has ebbed and flowed over time.
William Portillo (19:54):
And on a more personal level, in what ways has the movement impacted you, and would you consider them more positive ways and negative ways?
Ben Williams (20:09):
Yeah, I think it's inspired me. It's inspired me to do the work that I do. Even before George Floyd was killed, I started writing curriculum with the group called The Black Lives Matter Week of Action that was based out of Seattle and then Philadelphia. And so making sure that students in DC had access to curriculum that helped them understood the principles, the 12 principles in the movement, and were able to have space to be able to see themselves in the struggle for racial justice. I mean, I think that it's definitely changed my outlook and values in a lot of ways.
(21:07):
And I'd be lying if I didn't say that. I'm a little disheartened by some of the ways in which we've regressed as a society, both with the backlash from just the MAGA movement in general, but also how even in DC there's a lot of policies that we put in place after George Floyd was killed that are now being retracted and changed that more resemble different instances of racial bias that make people feel safe or make people feel like government is responding to public safety needs, but don't actually provide any research base for getting at the root causes of crime or the root causes of housing inequities.
William Portillo (22:07):
I noticed you mentioned a lot of different communities and work you have done for them. How often do you, or how do you find these communities? Is it something that you tend to reach out or are they reaching out to you?
Ben Williams (22:24):
Yeah, I think within Empower Ed, it was a happy hour that I got invited to because a teacher, I had been complaining about something at my school and then a teacher who you probably had Ms. Watson, did you have her as a teacher?
William Portillo (22:47):
I don't think so.
Ben Williams (22:49):
No. Did you have Mr. Johnson? Yeah. Okay. So this was even before him. So she was kind of like, well, there's this group that my friend's starting that you should go to this happy hour. And I did. And it was all these teachers that were talking about all the frustrations that we had with administration, with lack of clear policies, with not enough time to do our job with just a variety of things. And then they were organizing around those issues. And so then I signed up and I started going to the meetings, and then they asked me to lead one of the groups. And so I took on some responsibility and we ended up presenting our work and doing some research at American University, and then started to write policy briefs and started testifying at State Board of Education events and started testifying at city council events. And I started learning more about the budget and how we could try and influence how city spends its money.
(23:48):
And then with Teaching for Change, I just felt like it was a space of teachers that were fighting for social justice and wanted kids to be able to see the systemic inequities in our society and make sense of the world in an honest way. And so they reached out to me for, they were starting this group called the DC Area Educators for Social Justice. And I went to one of the meetings and I just became friends with a couple of the other teachers. And so then I kept going back to the meetings, and that was really great. So yeah, I've been lucky to just meet, really make friends with people that were with shared interests, and that's what kind of kept me motivated to continue doing work outside of my traditional job.
William Portillo (24:39):
Yeah. So within the groups, or even during the movement in general, do you think it has changed the way you talk to people in any way?
Ben Williams (24:59):
I wouldn't say the movement itself, but I would say my own evolution of understanding that I am a white male from a middle upper class background, and through my own learning and understanding, an intersectional way of seeing the world, whereas who people are influences their experiences and influence their perspective that has been able to really shape how I interact with people is an intersectional view of the world. So understanding the role that class plays in someone's opportunities, understanding the role that gender plays in people's opportunities and learning and hearing from my sister and cousins and friends, the experiences of women that I have not necessarily had as a man, which I think is something that the movement supports, but something that also exists outside the movement.
William Portillo (26:04):
You mentioned that the movement, I believe you mentioned that it's still ongoing and it's work that has been done over time. What are the ways you think the movement has succeeded, and what are some ways that you think the movement has failed or not done the best job in?
Ben Williams (26:26):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's exceeded in helping to raise a new generation of activists and to help create new policies and abolish inequities in laws in cities across the country and in the world. And I think that it's also helped in a lot of ways of helping many movement leaders win political office, both in terms of people that control the criminal justice system with regards to attorney generals in our country with regards to governors and mayors, and to have way more representation from people of color. Even if you look at right now, I think Minneapolis, Minnesota, they have a city council that is all black women, or Houston, Texas, which has a set of judges that have been elected to office that are predominantly black women. And I think having people in those roles that are the result of the work that the movement has been doing will help make sure that fair decisions are being made by government officials.
(27:53):
I think that the work, the way that I see the movement fail, I think it is tough. I'm not super quick to criticize it. I think that I blame more the media for labeling the protests as riots when the vast majority of protests were extraordinarily peaceful. And I also think that I have not been fully on board with the framing of defund the police because even though I support the ideas behind investing more in education and investing more in social services and taking money away from, or just creating a more balanced equal budget, if you will, I think that that has confused people, that framework of defund the police. And so I wish that when that had been messaged, that activists and organizers and politicians would've figured out a different slogan because I think that would've had a bigger, clearer message to folks that would've been able to gather more support.
William Portillo (29:05):
So as a high school teacher, I guess, what efforts or if any, do you put into maybe into the curriculum itself on, I guess almost touching base on the movement, if there's any? And how has that changed over time? Is it something that you still do or,
Ben Williams (29:30):
Yeah, it changes from year to year, but I want students to learn about the history of movement leaders like here behind my desk, I have a picture of Ella Baker who's a main, she was supporting the students from the Nonviolent Coordinating Committee and other activists. And people can typically just name Dr. King and Malcolm X and not talk about her. And we've recently read a book about the history of Rosa Parks and looking at her activism, not just in taking a stand against bus segregation, but in combating domestic violence against black women, and in being an anti-war protester, and just her continued lifelong struggle as a freedom fighter to realize that it's not just one random act that someone just sits down on a bus and then change happens. But for students to realize that if they want to see a better, brighter, fair future, it takes collective organizing and it takes grassroots organizing and it takes continued struggle.
(30:40):
And I think the way that shows up in my US government or AP government now, or even DC history curriculum, is by talking about the issues that the movement relates to. So we do, and you might've remembered this if we did it your year, we do soapbox speeches and then we do action civics projects in the spring where we're almost always talking about gentrification. We're almost always talking about gun violence. We're talking about inequities in mental health provision and healthcare, and having students see how government decisions and private enterprise decisions have influenced these inequities. And then figuring out where their agency is to do something about it. Because that's ultimately what I want students to walk away with is not feeling defeated, but knowing that there's always things that we can do, even if the change is slower than we like, it's important that every person is a part of the solution and not a part of the problem. And that starts with our own attitudes and our own actions.
William Portillo (31:49):
And so lastly, I would like if you touch base on your opinions on what you think the future for the Black Lives Movement looks like, is there anything that you think or you want to be done? What do you think of the future of it?
Ben Williams (32:10):
I think there's a lot that still needs to be done. And I think that this is where I'd like to see a lot of these ideas that have come from the movement be incorporated into the mainstream Democratic party and to then be implemented into policy. And I think a lot of that is about getting people excited to participate and vote and winning elections, to be able to create a pathway to citizenship, to be able to decriminalize and provide mental health supports with regards to our drug laws and reforming our drug laws to still be able to make sure that we're investing in supports for people coming out of prison to make sure that we have a fair education system. I mean, we are still bleeding the amount of teachers that we are losing every single year. And that's one of the issues that animates me most because as you know, from personal experience, I hope you could give me the title of just Passionate Educator.
(33:14):
And we're continuing to lose people with a lot of experience and a lot of knowledge, and a lot of ways in being able to provide good education. And that's just going to mean that we're not going to have it as smart and as educated and as capable of a society. And that's deeply troubling. So I think that a lot of these inequities start very young, and we need to be able to support families and support schools so that every child, no matter where they grow up, has the opportunities to live up to their potential. And that comes with what we fund and where we put our money as both in terms of our cities, our states, and our federal government. And so I think that work, to me is all work that I see deeply connected to the Black Lives Movement that still needs to be fought for and still needs to be implemented.
William Portillo (34:13):
Yeah. Well, yeah, that's all I got. Thank you. I'm glad you mentioned you being just passionate about education. I think that's one of the main reasons why I chose to speak to you for this interview. I try to think of, and not only because it is for a history class, but I try to think of work that's actively been done, and I often run it across your stuff, either on social media or anything. So yeah, you've definitely earned that title.
Ben Williams (34:55):
Thanks, William. Yeah, and I appreciate you reaching out. This is nice to give me a chance to just reflect on some of the things I've done and why I've done it. And it's been good to be able to talk with you.
William Portillo (35:10):
Yeah, of course. Yeah, so if there's anything else now or even later, we'll keep in touch. But yeah, thank you.

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