Media
audio-visual document

Oral History Interview with Erika Seay

Title
Oral History Interview with Erika Seay
Interviewee
Erika Seay
Interviewer
Kaleb Seay
Description
Erika Seay of Mount Juliet, Tennessee was interviewed by Kaleb Seay, a Sewanee student, on November 30th, 2023 on Zoom. While their conversation was primarily on the Black Lives Matter Movement, other topics included discussing Seay’s views on how the movement can impact state and local policy. We hope that this conversation will assist scholars with a further understanding of race in the United States during the early twenty-first century. Please click on the link to see the full interview.
Transcript
0:00 KALEB SEAY: On here. No, you're not. You're good. It's just a voice. All right. So I'm about to open it up. All right. All you ready, ma?

0:19 ERIKA SEAY: Yeah.

0:20 KALEB SEAY: All right. This is Caleb C from Sewanee, the University of the South. It is November 29th, 9:51 PM and it is a Wednesday in Sewanee. I am here with

0:39 ERIKA SEAY: Erica C.

0:41 KALEB SEAY: Now you can just introduce yourself.

0:44 ERIKA SEAY: Erica c Caleb's mother and phenomenal woman of the year.

0:53 KALEB SEAY: Where are you from? You got to say, where are you from?

0:56 ERIKA SEAY: I was born and raised in Knoxville, Tennessee.

1:07 KALEB SEAY: What side of Knoxville? You know they divide. What high school did you go to in Knoxville? East side. What side They get you F No, they're not because we can still go. It's supposed to be organic. What side of the east side are you going from?

1:24 ERIKA SEAY: What side of the east

1:25 KALEB SEAY: Side? I mean what high school did you go to?

1:27 ERIKA SEAY: Austin East Road Runners.

1:29 KALEB SEAY: Okay. The road runners.

1:32 ERIKA SEAY: Austin East.

1:35 KALEB SEAY: What traveling have you done, ma? How much time do you have? No, no, no. We got time, but what's, what's your favorite destination that you've been to

1:46 ERIKA SEAY: In the United States? My overall favorite destination in the United States is New York City. I love it. And I've been there many times. I love the culture. I love the arts. I love the diversity. I love it all. And outside of the United States, I would say, I don't know. I don't know. I think what makes travel great is the company the with you. I think you can go anywhere in the most beautiful places. If you're in bad company, it's not going to be a great experience. So company makes my travel great. I love to go see things, but I also love the company that I'm with. So one of my greatest trips have been those that I've taken with good friends. And then when we went to Honduras, me, you and Kirsten last year and all of that, that was amazing. Traveling with adult children.

2:38 KALEB SEAY: With adult children.

2:40 ERIKA SEAY: No diaper bags.

2:42 KALEB SEAY: No diaper bags. You still financially supporting us? Yes, Lord. Amen. What's your favorite food?

2:53 ERIKA SEAY: Seafood. I love seafood.

2:59 KALEB SEAY: I ain't know. Was seafood

3:01 ERIKA SEAY: What you thought it was?

3:02 KALEB SEAY: I dunno. Not seafood, just

3:03 ERIKA SEAY: Because I'm black. You thought it was like oxtails and

3:05 KALEB SEAY: Greens, soul food? No, ma. Yeah. You didn't? No I didn't. No I didn't. No I didn't.

3:12 ERIKA SEAY: What'd you think it was?

3:13 KALEB SEAY: I don't know why. I thought it was like a home cooked food or something like that. No,

3:17 ERIKA SEAY: I love seafood. I would eat seafood every day.

3:20 KALEB SEAY: Alright, you going to turn it to a

3:21 ERIKA SEAY: And then after that my favorite, favorite food would be like breakfast foods. I like breakfast food?

3:26 KALEB SEAY: Yeah. Would you rather have, oh, are you a waffle or pancake person?

3:31 ERIKA SEAY: Waffle

3:34 KALEB SEAY: You a pancakes and better than waffles though.

3:37 ERIKA SEAY: I use the same batter,

3:39 KALEB SEAY: But pancakes are fluffy. You don't got to get through that crunchy ridge. I don't know. And

3:42 ERIKA SEAY: I don't like fluffy pancakes.

3:43 KALEB SEAY: Why?

3:45 ERIKA SEAY: I like them flat,

3:48 KALEB SEAY: Like 'em like hot water, cornbread pancakes.

3:50 ERIKA SEAY: I like flat, like tt red. She on her way in,

4:03 KALEB SEAY: She on way. What time she get off work?

4:05 ERIKA SEAY: Look Kayla. Oh, I'll tell you after this interview, you going to fail this class? You might want to start this over.

4:10 KALEB SEAY: No, mine's supposed to be organic. We're good. It's supposed to be a conversation. Conversation,

4:14 ERIKA SEAY: Okay. Convers.

4:15 KALEB SEAY: Yeah, we alright. Because we haven't even gotten into the good questions yet. We got, yeah, we got time. We got time. What was you about to say?

4:24 ERIKA SEAY: She done went in that room, in your room and done put a rug down. Lamp. I said, ma'am, you do not

4:29 KALEB SEAY: Live here. She started renovating.

4:32 ERIKA SEAY: Renovating. I said, you better get a hotel next time you come, you don't come here bringing all that stuff. You're getting too

4:37 KALEB SEAY: Comfortable. She about to renovate.

4:39 ERIKA SEAY: Mam, renovate. Right on. Back to Knoxville.

4:47 KALEB SEAY: My next question, mother is going to be, where do you find your community today? Do you not identify like your community as, but where do you find your community today?

5:00 ERIKA SEAY: Community. Yeah. What do you mean by my community? Do you mean in the physical sense or a little sense or more social?

5:09 KALEB SEAY: Like social. Socially. Socially. Where do you find your community?

5:12 ERIKA SEAY: My community amongst my friends, my community in church and church. But I value, I think the older I get the more I value genuine friendships. I don't just have friends just for quantity sake. I have quality friends that can be honest. And it's weird because I think people come into your life at certain points of your life and fulfill a certain purpose. And I look at my friends now, my community now, and even the church people like Tiffany and Tara and everybody and everybody's unique. And so that's my community where we building each other and making each other and my children. And I'm about to put y'all out the community though because y'all more of a liability than

6:10 KALEB SEAY: You. You ain't about to put nobody. You ain't that by boss lady. Kirsten. She going to put in

6:15 ERIKA SEAY: Y don't have to find another community.

6:17 KALEB SEAY: Where are we going to find another community at Mama?

6:19 ERIKA SEAY: Hey, that's on y'all. That's on y'all. This community closed. You watch Walking Dead? Nope. We about to close the gates

6:30 KALEB SEAY: Ain't never seen. No, we

6:31 ERIKA SEAY: Had no walkers in. No walkers. Okay, come on because you about to. Okay.

6:38 KALEB SEAY: I

6:38 ERIKA SEAY: Can't even come back to Swanee after this interview, ma.

6:42 KALEB SEAY: Hold on. Alright. You still on?

6:45 ERIKA SEAY: Yeah.

6:46 KALEB SEAY: Guess who that was? They're calling me

6:48 ERIKA SEAY: John, Luke,

6:49 KALEB SEAY: Jonathan C. He just called me again. Call. That's who you

6:55 ERIKA SEAY: Need

6:55 KALEB SEAY: An interview.

6:57 ERIKA SEAY: They going to ask you please get your mother, get off our property,

7:00 KALEB SEAY: Ma. He wouldn't sign an NDA. Ain't no way, but I'm going to have to cut that up a little bit. That's all right. What's another question? Oh, have you ever, well, you just answered that though, where you travel to. It's another question. Have you ever experienced international coaches in your life, but you have, would you say Jamaica was your best one? Your trip to No. Was it a cruise to Jamaica you took?

7:28 ERIKA SEAY: Yeah, I cruised over to Jamaica, but then I also flew over to Jamaica and I'm flying back in February.

7:36 KALEB SEAY: Hold on, you just broke. You broke that to me, didn't you?

7:43 ERIKA SEAY: Hey. Hey. A smooth. Put that in. That real smooth.

7:47 KALEB SEAY: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. When you leaving in February. We'll talk after the interview. We'll talk after the interview. We'll talk after the interview. Ma you back?

8:01 ERIKA SEAY: Yeah, that was Tiffany.

8:02 KALEB SEAY: Oh well. Would you clarify Jamaica as your best one or where would you want to go in the future? That's my question. Going to be not about Jamaica.

8:11 ERIKA SEAY: So here's the thing. When I travel, even when I'm on vacation, I don't really necessarily care about the touristy parts. I want to go see culture. I want to see the real parts. So that is probably why I like Jamaica and I like Haiti and even The Bahamas, the touristy parts all look the same no matter where you go.

8:37 KALEB SEAY: It's going to be beautiful, beautiful beaches,

8:39 ERIKA SEAY: Blue beaches and great food and music and all of that. But when you go into the heart of most of those countries are very poor. They're like third world countries.

8:50 KALEB SEAY: They make the money off

8:51 ERIKA SEAY: And tourism is their only economic thing to sustain their economy. But yeah, I mean I guess Jamaica

9:02 KALEB SEAY: Would be, where would you want to go in the future? Would you ever think about going like,

9:06 ERIKA SEAY: I'm going to Dubai in March. Just go ahead and throw that out there to you too.

9:10 KALEB SEAY: February, March.

9:12 ERIKA SEAY: You writing it

9:13 KALEB SEAY: Down? No, I'm just saying that's right. Back to back. I'm going to remember it. It don't matter. I'm going to run this by my boss. Kirsten,

9:18 ERIKA SEAY: You can run what you want to

9:20 KALEB SEAY: You. I'm running by my boss and see what she think about it.

9:23 ERIKA SEAY: Okay. She going to Spain in May. So think about me.

9:37 KALEB SEAY: I ask you where would you want to go though in the future? Would you ever go to like, oh no,

9:44 ERIKA SEAY: I want to go. I would love to go. I know this going to sound. Well, I definitely want to go to the holy land. I want to go to Israel, Jerusalem, all that. This going to sound crazy, but I want to visit all the country. I want to go to Russia. I want to go Ukraine. I want to go to China. I want to go to North Korea. Am I going to go? No, because I'm a little scary.

10:09 KALEB SEAY: Yeah, I'm a little

10:10 ERIKA SEAY: Scary. So yeah, I'm probably not going to go.

10:12 KALEB SEAY: Yeah,

10:13 ERIKA SEAY: But I think I'm going to go visit my nephew in Alaska.

10:17 KALEB SEAY: When you going to do, I do want to see what Alaska's about. But

10:21 ERIKA SEAY: Yeah, I think I'm going to go visit is

10:23 KALEB SEAY: I

10:24 ERIKA SEAY: Want to drive the whole way, but I do want to drive through Canada to Washington and drive through Canada.

10:31 KALEB SEAY: Why though?

10:33 ERIKA SEAY: To see, I don't know, but it probably won't be because I think it's snowy a great part of the year.

10:42 KALEB SEAY: I wonder, does Alaska ever have a time where it's chill? Maybe even just jacket weather at night you could wear.

10:50 ERIKA SEAY: Yeah, it's, but it's only maybe a month or two out a year I think.

10:54 KALEB SEAY: And the rest of it was just cold.

10:57 ERIKA SEAY: Cold. It might not be snowy, but

10:59 KALEB SEAY: Do you think he'll get stationed somewhere else or is this for the next so long?

11:05 ERIKA SEAY: Probably if we don't get into another ward, probably going to be this country's messed up. All the world is off sight of what reality is, I guess. I dunno. I digress. What's the next question? Are you just making these up or these written down somewhere?

11:23 KALEB SEAY: Ma? I'm the one asking the questions around here.

11:28 ERIKA SEAY: Okay, you got about two more minutes of my time.

11:31 KALEB SEAY: No, I don't Mom, I don't have two more minutes of your time. You have to talk.

11:38 ERIKA SEAY: You about to go find an AI mom.

11:41 KALEB SEAY: AI mom and make a voice.

11:45 ERIKA SEAY: Okay. What's the next question? You should have interviewed tt. She about to come here and cut up.

11:49 KALEB SEAY: Nope. She can sit there and chime in. But this is you. She ain't signed yell, didn't do the forms. Come on Ma. Alright. How do you receive the news every day, ma?

12:09 ERIKA SEAY: The world news?

12:11 KALEB SEAY: Yeah, like the world news. Where do you get your, where's your source of news? Is it from tv, social media read you probably newspapers still, don't you?

12:22 ERIKA SEAY: I have been known to grab a newspaper or too in my

12:25 KALEB SEAY: Day. What's your new glasses you got?

12:27 ERIKA SEAY: But I normally get it on the tv. I honestly, I hate the news. I used to watch the news faithfully, but it's depressing. It make everybody worried and scared. It's so sensationalized and then it is full of opinions. It's not news used to be facts. They just give you facts. You can draw your own opinion or whatever. Just give you facts. Now everything is so opinionated, it just, I'll read some things, but I get my news from TikTok

13:11 KALEB SEAY: Mama. See that's where the real news is.

13:17 ERIKA SEAY: I get every TikTok, I get news, I get recipes, I get latest what's happening TikTok and world.

13:25 KALEB SEAY: That's where stuff ain't like these third party sites. Twitter.

13:30 ERIKA SEAY: Twitter, Twitter going to give it to

13:31 KALEB SEAY: You. Twitter is two XX

13:34 ERIKA SEAY: Yeah X now.

13:36 KALEB SEAY: Yeah,

13:37 ERIKA SEAY: No, I do some news stuff. I used to do CNN, but I don't even do CNN hard no more.

13:47 KALEB SEAY: Do you think they're about, I guess next generations are slowly wiping out the news. Traditional news, newspapers and news on television is more going to turn to social media.

13:58 ERIKA SEAY: I think the newer generation, just because of the access of electronic media and not necessarily your cell phones. You know what's news now? Anything somebody capture on their cell phone,
14:11 Anything somebody captures on their cell goes no need anymore. It's already out there in the universe or metaverse or social media, whatever it is, electronic news, whatever. Before you can call a news station to come down and report an accident. 10 people already done recorded it and posted it on social media that it was an accident on the corner on Mount Eagle triple overturned. 10 people already done posted that. The news don't even have to come for that. They already done posted it. It is already out there and tag the news in it. So I think not necessarily young food, I just think access to electronics has made news almost real time.

14:56 KALEB SEAY: Almost

14:57 ERIKA SEAY: Everybody going to go live, but it's going to spread like wildfire no matter what it is, if it's relevant. And then depending on who you tag or whatever,

15:05 KALEB SEAY: Does that have an effect on the responses that you get? I mean, everything's faster too, I guess in a sense, right?

15:10 ERIKA SEAY: The reason I think that it has an effect on response because you're taking raw footage and people are able to draw their own conclusions from raw

15:16 KALEB SEAY: Footage instead of the news filtering what they want to

15:19 ERIKA SEAY: Give you instead of the news filtering and editing, editing it. Now, I think the downside of that is social media still only allows snippets of things. Like you can't put an hour. I mean, well on some of 'em you probably can put an hour or YouTube, stuff like that. But your social media platforms you left, you're at the mercy of whoever's posting because they may only post the last five minutes or the first five minutes. So you're left wondering what happened and depending on somebody else to follow up if they do follow

15:54 KALEB SEAY: Up. Yeah, that's how it is on Twitter. Most definitely. Yeah,

15:56 ERIKA SEAY: That's everything.

15:58 KALEB SEAY: But no, you got to go. I go swipe over, especially on TikTok. I'll swipe over on somebody else page to see if they posted the part two or part three or something finished in the story. I

16:06 ERIKA SEAY: Up the comments or see what just watched and then go to that. Yeah.

16:12 KALEB SEAY: How do you think Covid affected, I guess social media?

16:18 ERIKA SEAY: I think it impacted it in a positive way for definitely the owners of the platforms. That was all you was left with? Yeah,
16:33 I think Covid left the world in a better place. The reason I say that is Covid forced us to look at things in ways that we never looked at it before. Something happened in the world that you couldn't hear, see, smell, touch, a taste. When does that happen? You couldn't see none of your senses prepared you for Covid. You didn't see it coming. You can't smell it coming, taste it coming, the feel coming, couldn't hear it coming. None of your senses prepared you for what was about to happen on a global spectrum. So it didn't just impact the United States, it didn't just impact, it impacted the entire world. Something that we could not explain and everybody attempted to explain it, where it come from. And I think they said it came from monkeys, it came from a bat bit somebody. It came from something that, but what bit the bat? Where did bat get it? Where the monkey get, I mean I don't know what they said, but something that we couldn't, none of our senses could prepare for what happened to Covid. Because once you got Covid, when you realize you had Covid, you already

17:52 KALEB SEAY: Had it. No, it was done. Yeah, you couldn't do nothing.

17:56 ERIKA SEAY: It was, no, lemme do this. I was in the kitchen breathing in orange peel and

18:02 KALEB SEAY: I thought it worked.

18:03 ERIKA SEAY: I wasn't going to get no covid. I Covid told me up the

18:07 KALEB SEAY: First time and and shaking you, Lord,

18:09 ERIKA SEAY: Please, oh Lord, I was sleeping with my Bible Lord. No. So I think Covid impacted the world. I hate the people died. That was the negative impact.

18:26 KALEB SEAY: But

18:27 ERIKA SEAY: Covid did something that nobody was prepared for and it didn't discriminate. It didn't care what your political views was. It didn't care what your religious views was. It didn't care what your race was. It didn't care. It didn't care about nothing. Covid was non-discriminatory. It didn't care what your social economic status was. It didn't care how big your house was, what kind of things. Covid did not discriminate. And it forced the world into a place where we all had to look and say, this is all a common fear that we have. Even if you believed in you wear a mask or don't wear a mask or whatever. We found something to argue about, but at the end of the day we were still arguing about the same thing. Mask

19:12 KALEB SEAY: Covid. Mad. Yeah.

19:13 ERIKA SEAY: It forced us all into a common place of fear, a reality. And nobody could argue if Covid was real or not because it was killing people.

19:25 KALEB SEAY: Everybody knew it was real

19:31 ERIKA SEAY: And some people tried to, the thing about fear is fear will cause you to justify things that you don't understand. You'll try to justify things that you don't have an explanation for. So people try to say it's a myth, it's this, it's that. But at the end of the day, nobody wanted it. I don't care if you thought it was real or not, you didn't want it. It's just a bad case of the flu where you don't want it. You don't want it, you don't want

19:56 KALEB SEAY: It. I ain't never thought about it like that. No matter if you thought it was real or not, you did not want it. That's true. That's true.

20:05 ERIKA SEAY: It made everybody stand in a common place of fear. And even the people that didn't believe in it and thought it was a myth or whatever, you was scared enough that you didn't want it. Nobody was like, well I hope I get covid.

20:19 KALEB SEAY: Nobody, people said they wouldn't taste stuff for three, four weeks.

20:24 ERIKA SEAY: Even People was like, it's a hoax. It's this, it's that. And when they got covid, they was like, God lee, y'all better put the mask

20:30 KALEB SEAY: Off. Yeah, it don't matter about it. Don't matter about it. They need the mask on.

20:35 ERIKA SEAY: They was all looking for medicine and started Thomas, you could take horse tranquilizers and I don't know what they would say. It was all whole bunch of stuff. Once you get covid, you probably drinking bleach,

20:47 KALEB SEAY: Trying to cleanse the inside of the body.

20:52 ERIKA SEAY: Covid had us all like what in the world?

20:56 KALEB SEAY: Yeah.

20:57 ERIKA SEAY: People was dying. That ain't never died before.

21:00 KALEB SEAY: That'd be their first time in they last. They

21:02 ERIKA SEAY: First time in they

21:03 KALEB SEAY: Last time. Rich in peace. All the people that died,

21:07 ERIKA SEAY: People lost.

21:07 KALEB SEAY: Lost their lives.

21:08 ERIKA SEAY: People lost a bunch of family members. It was a very sad time.

21:12 KALEB SEAY: Yeah, met peace lord.

21:15 ERIKA SEAY: Yeah. And the sad thing too is the people who lost family members didn't even really get them memorialized. Their family members you normally would. It was like, yeah, you couldn't go to funerals, couldn't funeral homes wasn't letting you come in and do you know what I mean? It was crazy. Some people in New York, they was just rapping 'em in body bags and putting 'em in trucks and burying 'em in different

21:40 KALEB SEAY: Was

21:40 ERIKA SEAY: So scared.

21:42 KALEB SEAY: New York was, but all them things piled up. All them bodies piled up.

21:47 ERIKA SEAY: Yeah,

21:50 KALEB SEAY: I forgot about that aspect of it. Alright, my next question is, when did you first hear about the Black Lives Matter movement? What was your first encounter with the Black Lives Matter movement? One of the two.

22:11 ERIKA SEAY: So Black Lives Matter has always been a There she go, black Lives Matter has always been

22:27 KALEB SEAY: Tell LA doing an interview. Tell Auntie we doing an interview.

22:31 ERIKA SEAY: Black Lives Matter has always been a movement to black people. Black Lives Matter became something to white people growing up as a black person in a black community.

22:46 KALEB SEAY: Hey auntie,

22:47 ERIKA SEAY: You want to see my apartment?

22:49 KALEB SEAY: Yeah. Lemme see your a We in the middle of can't see your

22:56 ERIKA SEAY: With on looking like Richard Simmons.

23:03 KALEB SEAY: What you doing auntie?

23:05 ERIKA SEAY: What are you doing chair? So Black Lives Matter was always a thing in the black community. We was black, we always knew we was unequal and was always crying in some kind of way from civil rights to slavery that black lives mattered. We just didn't, wouldn't stand it in that mantra. But that wasn't anything new until we began to cry it out. When injustices became more, not overt, but more outward, they became more common. Nobody was black. Lives Matter became a thing to white people, not to black. It's always been a thing for us
23:43 When racism outward. Because see, during civil rights, racism was outward. But then when the civil right Jim Crow laws and stuff like that was overturned, racism had to be done inwardly. Lynching never really stopped. They just was doing it on a private forum in jails in different places like that. Those things. Now the Jim Crow laws was abolished outwardly on the books, but it was always discrimination. So there was a period of time when racism and discrimination was hidden when things were abolished. But then there came a wave where it was almost popular with, I will say, when Trump came along,
24:33:00 People got back to being comfortable with outward displays of racism and discrimination. Black people were no longer being beaten in back alleys where couldn't nobody see it. They were being beaten in front. You know why we were seeing it now? Because of cell phones? You can't hide it now. Now we see you, we recording it and we posted it and we're watching you. So now y'all got to explain this, explain why this is happening, explain why all these things are happening and not just, well, yeah, we talking about Black Lives Matter because I don't equate black lives and homosexual lives as the same. And I know people say they's all a civil rights and I can't hide my blackness.

25:15:00 Speaker 3: You

25:16:00 ERIKA SEAY: Can hide your sexuality. You're not running out here saying, I'm heterosexual, homosexual, trans. But anyway, I digress. But yeah, it's not a, it's recording. It's supposed to be wrong.

25:35:00 KALEB SEAY: Look at her. I wish they could see her on the video right now. Mama,

25:47:00 ERIKA SEAY: What's the next question? Because I'm about to cut this interview off. Why

25:50:00 KALEB SEAY: You about to cut it off for her?

25:52:00 ERIKA SEAY: You the first interviewer. You got too many pauses in your questions.

25:56:00 KALEB SEAY: No, it's because it it's you.

25:59:00 ERIKA SEAY: Okay.

25:59:00 Speaker 3: It's You want it to be me?

26:02:00 KALEB SEAY: No, auntie. It's okay Auntie. Come on. Alright. Who do you think was affected more about a Black Lives Matter movement? Was it your generation or My generation?

26:21:00 ERIKA SEAY: Y'all's generation.

26:25:00 KALEB SEAY: Why is that?

26:28:00 ERIKA SEAY: Because my generation, well,
26:34:00 I think y'all was affected more because you all hadn't really had the opportunity to see racism, experience and experience it. And when things began to happen in the Black Lives Matter movement, it made you all have to stand up and say, yeah, we do matter. See our generation and darling them generation, they've been marching and talking and saying, this is not right. These are injustices. You all lived and were born and raised in a time where you didn't really have to experience it hourly. So you may not have even recognized it just because you wasn't being called a nigger.
27:18:00 You may not have experienced, but Black Lives Matter made the world realize that racism was more than being caught bigger and being lynched. There was systemic racism. There was that silent racism. There was that unconscious racism that everybody was forced to deal with. The reality of it. And even some of my white counterparts was like, Hey, let's have this conversation. Because I never even really realized that we lived on a privilege, but we actually do. A white privilege is real and how do we get past it? You know what I mean? So I think it was better for your generation because you all had to look at some things that, I don't even think that you all were totally aware of what's happening because you all run through the hall skipping with your white friends and don't realize that had somebody said somebody stole a hundred dollars and five of your white friends and two of your black friends took off running in different directions, the police was going to chase you two black folks. And that's just the reality that we were all forced to look at that everybody didn't really, even white people had to be like, dang, that is true. Dang. Why are you questioning my, this is my friend. Why are you questioning why in this neighborhood? Why are this where he lived? Why are you he lived next door to me? Things like that. They were being forced to. They was now seeing the inequality in the system period.

28:50:00 KALEB SEAY: Would you label the Black Lives Matter movement a social movement, not like a social media movement instead of more being a physical out there marching and stuff like that?

28:58:00 ERIKA SEAY: No, I think it was more of a social, just because of the time that we lived in. We definitely, I definitely marched. I think you went, Kirsten went marched with me that time downtown. Maybe it was Kirsten, Nico Till and Amy all. But anyway, it was definitely a social, it was definitely a social movement. I think it was a social movement movement. It was a cultural movement.

29:23:00 KALEB SEAY: What do you mean by what would be an example of a cultural movement?

29:30:00 ERIKA SEAY: Cultural would be more, it would've probably been more just grounded in our community, like the black community. And I think it was more of a social media movement because everybody, whether you black, white, Hispanic, Latino, no matter what your sexual origin, no matter what your social, everybody had to look at it. Whether they agree with it or not, you know that some people try to contradict it with all lives matter. Well, we do know that all lives matter, but all lines ain't getting shot down. All lines ain't been, you know what I mean? So like they said, if it's two houses side by side and the house on the right is burning up the house on the left, how dare you say, well, all houses matter. Well no, your house ain't on fire. Yeah.

30:16:00 KALEB SEAY: So don't tell me about what matters and what don't.

30:18:00 ERIKA SEAY: He not saying it don't matter, but my house is burning up, so

30:24:00 KALEB SEAY: I'm use some of this in class. I ain't going to lie to you. I'm bringing some of this up in class. I'm not going to, I'm going to attach this on my,

30:32:00 ERIKA SEAY: Because the fire truck over here trying to put these out house matter. Your house ain't on fire

30:38:00 KALEB SEAY: Jail. What do you think about the responses to the Black Lives Matter, to all Lives Matter, stuff like that. Red Lives, blue Lives Matter.

30:48:00 ERIKA SEAY: I think it made people feel that their position in society was no longer safe. And that was their attempt at maintaining what they had become familiar with or what they've been safe and comfortable with. Those movements compromised their position in society. That was just a response to being uncomfortable with the reality of having to deal with what was happening in the black community.

31:22:00 KALEB SEAY: Yeah, because at first it used to make me mad. I don't know why. Seeing the response, it was like, all Lives Matter or Blue Lives Matter. I'm like, yeah, but that's not, the Black

31:30:00 Speaker 4: Lives didn't matter until Black Lives made it a point that we weren't taking that shit no more.

31:37:00 ERIKA SEAY: That we, hey, we being recorded and we, this is the free zone. She to start marching. Look at it.

31:47:00 KALEB SEAY: She had no,

31:51:00 ERIKA SEAY: We shall overcome.

31:54:00 KALEB SEAY: The thing is, I'm doing this project for a class at the University of the South.

31:59:00 ERIKA SEAY: She said, this ain't,

32:00:00 KALEB SEAY: I need to be here. I got you next week. I, I'm doing the Malcolm X series too by any means necessary. I'm just, I'm talking to Martin right now. I'm talking to Luther King right now.

32:13:00 ERIKA SEAY: You talking to,

32:28:00 KALEB SEAY: She said she read Powow. What do you mama, do you think the Black Lives Matter movement? I guess it's hard to say if something has failed because it's not at the end yet. If it's still going on right now, it's hard to say it failed. But how do you think, I guess the Black Lives Matter movement has failed. How could they do better in a sense too, I guess?

32:58:00 ERIKA SEAY: I think it failed because it's a movement. Movements are somewhat temporary and kind of emotion driven. And instead of it being a movement, it should have been more of a call. And I guess it was to a sense a call to change or eradicate racism. However, it became such a point of contention that I don't think that the organizers were actually prepared for its longevity or the lack of longevity.

33:56:00 KALEB SEAY: So do you think they were thinking on a smaller scale?

33:59:00 ERIKA SEAY: See, so right now you really don't hear when Breonna Taylor and George Floyd and some of the other ones where it was fresh to us, that's when you heard Black Lives Matter. Black Lives Matter now it's kind of seemed to have

34:23:00 KALEB SEAY: Stabilized

34:24:00 ERIKA SEAY: And still those things matter and they should matter. But I don't dunno if you've ever studied the Black Panthers.

34:37:00 KALEB SEAY: I studied a little bit, remember I did the project on Malcolm X and I just did a paper too as well on the Black Panther Party, especially Memphis and Chattanooga.

34:46:00 ERIKA SEAY: Malcolm X wasn't part of the Black Panther party. He was a Muslim who was definitely, he did work well. Yeah, he was part of the Black Panther party.

35:02:00 KALEB SEAY: But

35:02:00 ERIKA SEAY: Anyway, the Black Panther party was actually a political party, but it was one of the strongest and most effective ways. But the way that they went about it was people think that it was a violent movement. The Black Panther party wasn't violent. They were educating the community. They were educating the children. They were raising the children up to be educated, to be smart and preparing them for leadership roles in their community to be doctors and lawyers and politicians and just to be great. And they were opening up stores and pantries and different things in the community that differs from the Black Lives Matter because the Black Lives Matter was a movement. But I think the planning, the organizers black and white organizers did not plan for its success. I think it was just a call for action, but not really a call that expected success. Because if it expected success, great success, there would've been better planning. It would've been programs placed in schools, political programs. It would've been things put in place for the longevity, the long-term success of it. But I think it was a crime that injustices need to end, but not a how do we get it to an end.
36:37:00 Yeah. What laws did you all work to get placed on the books? What laws were, you know what I mean?

36:45:00 KALEB SEAY: We still see that today. I mean it reversed Tennessee and Florida. The laws on what they teach in classrooms has changed. So that's one thing I kind of feel the same way. I guess I feel as if it's kind of not still made it, but we don't see it as much.

37:02:00 ERIKA SEAY: No. Until somebody else dies. And even when somebody else dies now, like a black person dies or something like that, then you'll see Ben Crump, you'll see Al Sharpton. You'll see, and I'm not taking anything from those people. Those are definitely strong voices for the black community. But anytime you hear those voices, it's always in the midst of a fight. But what are we doing when there's no fighting and we should still be fighting. You know what I mean? Where are the laws? Who's writing some proposed laws or bills? You know what I mean?

37:39:00 KALEB SEAY: Yeah. What if they are though? Who

37:42:00 ERIKA SEAY: Is happening? I'm sure on a small scale it is. But if we could get everybody to, if everybody would really buy in and believe in us enough, and I don't even know if it's a good part of the interview, but me and Squeegy got into it. I mean, I was so upset with him today because he came in celebrating. Your boy got fired, your boy got fired, told Coach Rock. I lost it. I lost it. I said, that's the difference in you young ones, you young men and these older fathers who have aved the way I said, you came in here and you celebrated another black man who is a phenomenal man. He said, but he wasn't winning. I said, don't you know, got to take some losses to win. I said, you think Nick Saban winning every game? He not Nick Saban having a good season now, but guess what? He Nick Saban. He Nick Saban, period. Everybody ain't, you can't win all of them. I said, but this is my problem. You going and you celebrating this loss, but you the one that you going your son to be successful and you going to be mad if he don't succeed. But you got to remember what you just did.
38:58:00 It's going to come back. It's coming back to you. I said, squeaky, you all are preparing. I said, I learned. I said, take it from somebody who's been down this road who's seen it. You better prepare your young black man to be successful, an excellent thinker, academia, all of that stuff. Don't raise him to think the only way he going to be successful is throwing a ball and running fast. If that's what you tell him, that's all he going to believe he ever going to be. And so when that career comes to an end, just like Briton's doing right now, he's struggling mentally. Briton is not, that's why he's doing all of that campus going to recover.
39:41:00 They don't put into your father put into you that that's what you are. That's who you are. You football, you this, you that. Look at Chico, he great. He doing all of this. You supposed to be doing that and you're not doing it because everybody's road is going to be different. Whatever roads you take, you better make sure it's excellent and make sure it's the one that God has for you and settle in and be great. There's people out here that ain't going to go to the NFL, but it's going to make 10 times more money than the NFL players make. I said, who do you think making the money the most money? The people up in the box or the people on the field?

40:15:00 KALEB SEAY: It's in the box. The one that's controlling the game. The ones that, yeah, the players just playing in it. They giving him a little change.

40:22:00 ERIKA SEAY: Better raise your kid to own the team and not be part of the team. I own the team. I ain't got to run and jump and skip.

40:28:00 KALEB SEAY: I don't need to.

40:31:00 ERIKA SEAY: I own this team.

40:34:00 KALEB SEAY: But yeah, I ain't never thought of. What do you think the state of the race relations are in the United States right now? Or in the South? I guess

40:42:00 ERIKA SEAY: Terrible.

40:43:00 KALEB SEAY: Or you say that

40:44:00 ERIKA SEAY: Because I think people are secretly still racist. And I think it's easy for people to ignore an issue than to deal with it. And I think right now the United States is in a place of we ignoring the issue. If we ignore it, it'll go away. But I do think we have a young generation of politicians and representatives. It's like, no, you're not about to ignore this. We got this.

41:08:00 KALEB SEAY: Yeah, I just want to see a little bit of change especially,

41:12:00 ERIKA SEAY: And I think social media too has also lended us a great platform because you can't ignore nothing. You

41:21:00 KALEB SEAY: Can't,

41:22:00 ERIKA SEAY: I don't have to depend on you anymore to approve this. I got my own. I can say what I want to right here and give my opinion. Now you might get censored or you might get shut down or in Facebook jail or sold Instagram jail for a couple days, whatever. But at the end of the day, it is hard to silence people's voices now that they have it right at their fingertips. And so people are now forming their own opinions because they now have access to information. You got access to global information without ever having to get out your chair. And so people, young people, I do believe that now. I think the generation under y'all going to be a weak generation, Lord, how mercy?

42:05:00 KALEB SEAY: Oh yeah, them young right now. The ones, what's coming up right now?

42:09:00 ERIKA SEAY: Oh, they just going to be crying and whining.

42:13:00 KALEB SEAY: They lost mentally.

42:14:00 ERIKA SEAY: But I do think that y'all's generation is a generation of self thinkers. I think that you all form an opinion based on raw information. And I think that you all are not scared to use it. You're not scared to speak on it and stand firm on your convictions about it. But then I also think the good thing about Y's generation is you also respect to some degree the opinions of others. Whereas our generation and a generation, if you don't think what they think, it's argumentative. It's just you're stupid. It's this. If you're a Republican used to be a time Republican, y'all's generation, you could be a Republican or you could be a Republican or Democrat. We still going to have dinner. I don't care. We just don't agree on this something. But who paying the bill? Let's agree on that. You know what I mean? And I think y'all's generation, to a certain point, there's some weaknesses Y'all have, y'all not as tough on some things. But I do think you all are fearless when it comes to going out and getting what y'all want. When y'all really believe, and when y'all really believe y'all speak on it, y'all will unapologetically state an opinion and stand flatfoot and debate and argue a point with mutual respect as long as it don't get disrespectful. You know what I mean?

43:43:00 KALEB SEAY: So do you see Black Lives Matter continuing on and doing bigger and better things as time goes on or

43:48:00 ERIKA SEAY: So when you say Black Lives Matter, you're talking about the actual Black Lives Matter movement. Are we talking about really

43:54:00 KALEB SEAY: Black

43:54:00 ERIKA SEAY: Lives that

43:54:00 KALEB SEAY: Matter? I'm talking about No, I'm talking about the Black Lives Matter movement. Like you said, literally to white, white people. Literally because we literally been our whole life. That's why I was trying to, it made me understand our class more. I was like, these things I've always understood. This is not something that I've just now knowing and I'm finding out about all this stuff I know about. I'm a black man. So yeah, we're talking about the Black Lives Matter movement when it became, I guess significant to the white world, when it started getting that traction, that movement. It happened around when, I think they said it started around 20, 20 15, I guess oh six, when Obama got elected. I mean oh eight. But that wasn't right.

44:38:00 ERIKA SEAY: No, it didn't even win Obama. It might have been a little after

44:42:00 KALEB SEAY: That. It was like 16, I think they said 2016, 17 or 18. Yeah, it was somewhere around there.

44:47:00 ERIKA SEAY: It was when black people was getting killed back selling CDs, selling, playing with a water gun in the park, walking home with tea and Skittles and shot in your house. Just sitting there. And then both of John, the lady, the officer just going, his just, they was like, you said, is it going to grow?

45:12:00 KALEB SEAY: I said, what do you see? I guess, do you think with our generation, do you think it'll keep getting traction and go into the making bigger changes in the city council rooms in the I do the state rooms. Okay. I

45:25:00 ERIKA SEAY: Do. I think things are changing. I think the generations, y'all's generation, and even my generation too, I think that the reality of the state of the world or the state of the United States is in such a place, it can't be ignored. And I think when our white counterparts began to see like, wow, they are treated, whoa, this isn't right, is when it gained traction. When it was just us crying. It matters. We matter black. It wasn't as effective until you had, and it's always been, even with civil rights, Martin Luther King, there's always a multicultural movement per se, but always more black than white. But there's always white people who said, Hey, no, we're standing here and we're going to set at the countertops with y'all. We're going to set at these and fight with you. So with the Black Lives matter too, I think people were forced to see that racism was not a myth.
46:41:00 And I think for white people, because they were not the subject of racism, they didn't really realize that it was real because they never had to endure it. But now that you having to look racism in a face, you can't ignore it. So now, no, this ain't right. We can't do this. These are the kids that's at my house with my kids. These are the people that live down the street from me. These are the people that's graduating. These are my friend's kids. You can't ignore it. You can't ignore it. And then I think that too, this generation is comfortable calling people out on your bss. No, Tracy, what'd you say? They need to see a good black man. What is a dinosaur shouldn't mean no harm. She really meant that genuine. She was trying to help.

47:30:00 KALEB SEAY: Yeah. Some people just not aware of what's going.

47:33:00 ERIKA SEAY: You realize this what you just said. Yeah. So yeah, I think it'll grow. I hope it'll grow,
47:41:00 But it'll be up to push it and not let it die. This is the scary thing about y'all's generation is social media has also made, if you think what's important to y'all's generation is it's more important for y'all to be a boss than to handle black lives matter issues or social issues. Are you trying to come up? Are you trying to chase a bag? And that doesn't really change anything but yourself. Whereas our generation and generations before we worked hard, but it was important for us to change the community. And right now, y'all's generation really just want nice clothes, Lamborghinis cars, dah, dah, dah. And if the next man got it, it'll really affect you as long as your life is great. You know what I mean? It's because social media, that's the downfall of social media. We sell you that foolishness. I mean, so you looking at that and you're comparing your situation with what you see on social media, but then you do have a small sector that's like that really don't matter. We got to change the community until we change how we are viewed and people's perception of us, we really never really get the bag depending on what your bag looks like. You know what I mean? We shouldn't really have to, we still having to chase a bag that they running with that we

49:12:00 KALEB SEAY: Got to do. That's not right. We're still running after it. We're still trying to chase it.

49:15:00 ERIKA SEAY: Yeah. And it's so much harder for us to gain that bag. It's easier than it used to be, but still harder than it should be. It's still not equal.

49:26:00 KALEB SEAY: Yeah. It's not an even point.

49:28:00 ERIKA SEAY: Yeah.

49:32:00 KALEB SEAY: Well, ma, I appreciate your time. I love you. She started laughing.

49:40:00 ERIKA SEAY: She, Hey, put my check in the mail. I have my people. Call your people.

49:47:00 KALEB SEAY: I'm going to have to go and cut it up some.

49:49:00 ERIKA SEAY: I have your people. Call my people. Don't cut it up. Give it to 'em. Just

49:53:00 KALEB SEAY: Like this. Just like this, ma. Like this. Just like this.

49:56:00 ERIKA SEAY: This is how me and my mama talk to each other. Just the interview.

49:59:00 KALEB SEAY: It's the interview. It always is. We always talk like this, but it's more I'll be making more jokes. I just got to pass this class. I hope he watch it to the end too.

50:09:00 ERIKA SEAY: Well, tell him watch it to the end

50:11:00 KALEB SEAY: Player. Watch it. I left you a good message at the end. I'm doing good.

50:15:00 ERIKA SEAY: Okay,

50:16:00 KALEB SEAY: Then they tried to kill us this morning, but,

50:19:00 ERIKA SEAY: And the workout wrong.

50:20:00 KALEB SEAY: I ain't never worked out like this since Darryl Graham.

50:24:00 ERIKA SEAY: That's

50:24:00 KALEB SEAY: Good. Shout out DGA. If you see this. If you ain't dying, you ain't trying. If you ain't dying, you ain't trying. But yeah, but I'll Thank you. Thank you for that, Jim. You just put a billion dollars worth of game. Bye. Tell Auntie I love you. All right. I love you, mama, all. Bye. Cut. Ty. He said he loved me. He said me. Bye. No, I love bye. And that's it Coming in. 51 minute mark. Two one. Hope we're at it.

Part of Erika Seay